New engine

[manco12]

Hello,

since my deuce does not run anyway, id like a new engine. A motorcycle engine. What size motorcycle engine will I need for it to go about 70 MPH? I would only go that fast on a track, but it would be nice to be able too. And I may use it to pull a trailer around the yard. I will be adding some body to it also. Like short sides and a "hood" going halfway up. Also an extra battery will be needed for power.

So with the extra weigh and speed, what size motorcycle engine will I need for my beast?

P.S. If it is going to need to be a very big engine, I will just use a smaller one.
Thanks.

[Red-85-Z51]

You need to decided wether or not you want to go 70mph or pull a trailor...cant do both.


I would go with a Lifan 138, with the 4 speed and manual clutch. about 10hp worth of power, 4 cycle, OHC, Air cooled, and the gears are a nice plus. It will have a charging system as well.

I wouldnt take a Deuce kart over 40, so the need to do so doesnt exist.

[manco12]

I would mostly go about 40mph on a dirt path. And I need it to have enough power to go through muddy conditions. I sometimes got stuck with the 12hp. But generally I wont need to pull anything that much. More just small branches and stuff that falls off of trees. I have a big backyard ;)

But there would be times I would want to go fast when it is safe. (on a straight paved path)

I was thinking a 600cc motorcycle engine or whatever size. I dont really care as long as it does what i need it to.

So, what size engines should i look at?

Thanks.
Sorry for keep asking questions. If you dont remember, I asked a lot about engines before.

Thanks.

[Red-85-Z51]

I would mostly go about 40mph on a dirt path. And I need it to have enough power to go through muddy conditions. I sometimes got stuck with the 12hp. But generally I wont need to pull anything that much. More just small branches and stuff that falls off of trees. I have a big backyard ;)

But there would be times I would want to go fast when it is safe. (on a straight paved path)

I was thinking a 600cc motorcycle engine or whatever size. I dont really care as long as it does what i need it to.

So, what size engines should i look at?

Thanks.
Sorry for keep asking questions. If you dont remember, I asked a lot about engines before.

Thanks.

The key is a happy medium between power, weight, and praticallity.

a 600 is going ot be extremly heavy, and have a ton of power. So much power that you are pretty much guarenteed to get stuck in mud.

a 110 isnt practical, not enough grunt.

a 200 or 250 4 stroke with a manual gearbox should be more than enough. a Lifan 200 is about 20hp and can be had with a 5 speed. A 250 is about 23hp.

Any more power than this and you will be losing traction in mud far too easily, not to mention frame stress.

[manco12]

"a 600 is going ot be extremly heavy, and have a ton of power. So much power that you are pretty much guarenteed to get stuck in mud."

I dont exactly get what you mean there.

But anyway, i think the deuce frame could support a 600 motorcycle engine. It is thicker than any other buggy frame ive seen.

And I may be able to get a 600 for a really cheap price. If I can get it should i go with that?

About how fast would a 250 go?
a 600?

Remember, the deuce is heavy and im gunna be adding even more weight. Also, I have big tires with very good traction but its just water i sometimes struggle getting through. Like maybe even a foot of water sometimes fills up the path's low spots.

Thank you.

[Red-85-Z51]

"a 600 is going ot be extremly heavy, and have a ton of power. So much power that you are pretty much guarenteed to get stuck in mud."

I dont exactly get what you mean there.

But anyway, i think the deuce frame could support a 600 motorcycle engine. It is thicker than any other buggy frame ive seen.

And I may be able to get a 600 for a really cheap price. If I can get it should i go with that?

About how fast would a 250 go?
a 600?

Remember, the deuce is heavy and im gunna be adding even more weight. Also, I have big tires with very good traction but its just water i sometimes struggle getting through. Like maybe even a foot of water sometimes fills up the path's low spots.

Thank you.

600 is just a whole lot of engine. If you have to stop on less than solid ground, getting going again isnt going to happen. Even at idle, letting the clutch out slowly and feathering the gas will overpower the tires and once that happens, you are stuck.

I mean, a 600 is going to have probably 75 OR MORE horsepower, and on a paved street with slicks that would be a really great ride. but off road, it would just break parts and dig holes.

What you want to do is have enough power, but gear it in a way that you can control that power. 20hp, with a 5 speed is going to have a low 1st gear, so in a rut, you should be able to rev the engine and let the clutch out but not instantly overpower the tires.

Imagine trying to race across a frozen pond...Would you want a 505hp Vette, or a 150hp Sedan? All the power in the world is useless if you overpower the rear tires in your trerrain conditions.

My modified GX-200 Honda is right at 20hp on GAS, and it is mad fast. Ive got it geared high with 11.5" slicks and driving it on anything other than a paved surface is not something you can do, the tires light up and yo uare off doing donuts. If I had a 5 speed gearbox on it, Id be able to do burnouts in 1st gear without any trouble. But having a fixed gear ratio, if I want ot have any top speed I cannot gear too low.

Your deuce had 12hp, and a CVT, correct? Imagine 20hp, A LOW 2st gear and a Tall 5th gear, and a manual clutch. It should be doable.

Like I said, if yo ugo too powerful, it's just going to break parts and spin the tires.

I would absolutely go no larger than a 400. Heck a friends Honda 400ex has no trouble doing Donuts on concrete in 2nd gear, and he can do burnouts through the first 3 gears. This is with WIDE aftermarket tires. He cant keep the front end down for anything, and it's just a 400 Twin.

[theo]

What kind of rear suspension does that duce have? If it is a swing arm with the engine mounted on it then you have to do a lot of changing back there. You don't what all that weight on your suspension, you want less un-sprung weight not more. To use that engine you will have to go to independent suspension of some sort, a arms or trailing arms.

theo

[manco12]

Thanks for that info.

But if I always started in 2nd gear and sped up slower couldnt I just do that? Its just that I can get a really nice Suzuki 600 engine for cheap. And like Theo said about the suspension, that may need to be changed a bit. But the weight on the actual frame will not be a problem. Its a heavy duty frame.

I just thought since I can get a good 600 engine and my engine isnt running now, it would be good to have the 600 be put in. If I cant do it myself, I have people that can help.

[Red-85-Z51]

Like a Katana engine?

Those go around here for 200-300 bucks...

You can do it, your choice, I just feel like you are going to be fighting a traction issue and probably end up wearing out the clutch.

also, for what its worth, a Kawsakin Ninja, as fast as it was...was only about 250cc's.

[theo]

Also the rpm's of the bike engine is so high you will have to use a jackshaft.

theo

[manco12]

Okay.

Ill give it some time and think about it. Im not going to get the 600 engine. I think ill work on its look for now and not its performance. It might just need a spark plug anyway. I am trying to make the... nicest go-kart ever. No one cares how their buggies look but I do. Im going to even get decals for it and such.

So, what kind of paint works best? I really want to work on my buggy so I can show it off in the summer and give my friends rides :)So now im looking for a dark black spraypaint.

[Red-85-Z51]

Okay.

Ill give it some time and think about it. Im not going to get the 600 engine. I think ill work on its look for now and not its performance. It might just need a spark plug anyway. I am trying to make the... nicest go-kart ever. No one cares how their buggies look but I do. Im going to even get decals for it and such.

So, what kind of paint works best? I really want to work on my buggy so I can show it off in the summer and give my friends rides :)So now im looking for a dark black spraypaint.

Strip it down, have it media blasted and powdercoated.

OR

Strip it down and use an automotive Laquer paint, so gas and oil dont hurt it.

Rattle can paintjobs are fun at first but just your shoes rubbing on the frame getting on and off will damage it.

[manco12]

Thanks.

And, just wondering, would I have to put a layer of clear coat paint or something on after I paint it with the automotive paint? Also, then could I just keep painting over the clear coat to keep the actual color paint from coming off?

And do you think I could paint it, put decals on, and then clear coat it to protect the decals and keep them from coming off?

Sorry bout all the questions but ive never done anything like this before :(

And sorry for getting off topic but my ideas change quickly =P